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“OneUp has become indispensable, empowering our team leads to make data driven decisions.”

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Richard F.

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Make performance visible, engaging and motivating.

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Make performance visible, engaging and motivating.

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Carrot & Stick Podcast

Hands-On, Not Hands-Off: A Michael Page MD's Approach to Managing 120 Recruiters

Jul 10, 2026
<span id="hs_cos_wrapper_name" class="hs_cos_wrapper hs_cos_wrapper_meta_field hs_cos_wrapper_type_text" style="" data-hs-cos-general-type="meta_field" data-hs-cos-type="text" >Hands-On, Not Hands-Off: A Michael Page MD's Approach to Managing 120 Recruiters</span>
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"The best recruiters in our business say no way more than they say yes."

— Charlie Ginzburg, Managing Director @ Michael Page

Everyone champions start-up agility and giving teams total freedom - but what if that's exactly what's holding your recruiters back?

Charlie Ginzburg went from selling Marlboro cigarettes to running Michael Page's Chicago and LA operation, scaling his team from 17 people to 120.

In this episode he makes the contrarian case for structure, discipline and - yes - micromanagement, and why the best recruiters say no far more than they say yes.

Derry Holt
Host

Derry Holt

CEO, OneUp Sales
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Charlie Ginzburg
Guest

Charlie Ginzburg

Managing Director at Michael Page
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00:00
From cigarette salesman to Managing Director
07:17
Big recruitment vs small: the real trade-offs
14:46
Eating the boring salad: discipline within your niche
19:56
Hardworking, coachable, no assholes: when to back someone
24:23
"I like micromanaging": why teams crave structure
36:30
Big billers vs "terrorists": balancing ICs and managers
44:03
The three jobs: biller, manager, director
50:26
Charlie's parting advice: eat the salad, grind in your twenties

What we cover in this episode

Micromanage the Work, Not the Person

Charlie reframes "micromanagement" as structure — showing people exactly how to succeed early on, then handing over autonomy once they've earned it.

Eat the Boring Salad

Real discipline is staying in your niche and doing the unglamorous groundwork, even when a big out-of-core fee is tempting — because the best recruiters say no more than they say yes.

Hire for Coachability, Not Just the CV

Back anyone who's hardworking, coachable and has the right attitude, judge them on those inputs before revenue, and never tolerate a brilliant biller who's toxic.

Build a Home for Billers AND Managers

Scaling breaks when you only celebrate one path — create parallel reward and career structures so top individual contributors and people managers can both thrive.

Turn Insight Into Action

Structure and accountability only stick when every recruiter can read their own numbers - and that's exactly what OneUp Sales makes possible.

OneUp turns your team's live call, meeting and deal data into leaderboards and dashboards, so managers can spot who's consistent, who's slipping, and step in before it shows up in the billings.

Book a OneUp Demo